MD安德森癌症中心
日期:06-30-2014
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Lisa Garvin:欢迎来到Cancer Newsline,来自德克萨斯大学MD安德森癌中心的播客系列。Cancer Newsline有助于您在癌症研究,诊断,治疗和预防的新闻中保持目前,提供有关减少家庭癌症风险的最新信息。乐动体育LDsports中国我是你的主人,Lisa Garvin。今天,我们正在与Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士交谈,他是MD Anderson的Leukemia教授,他也是Myelodysplastic综合征的专家,恰好是我们癌症月亮的一半。欢迎回来,Manero博士。
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:谢谢,丽莎。
Lisa Garvin:让我们谈谈Myelodysplastic综合症,只需在我们潜入之前获得一般概述。所以这是一系列疾病,我们有未成熟的血细胞。所以那种解释,疾病的成因。
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:所以,基本上,这是一种白血病的特征是我们所说的骨髓衰竭。正如你所说的,这种疾病的临床表现是缺乏适当的血细胞形成,或者是低白细胞数或低血红蛋白,即贫血或低血小板数或两者的组合。这是一种主要影响老年人或接受过其他形式化疗或其他癌症放疗的患者的疾病。这是一组非常复杂的疾病患者可能处于疾病的早期阶段可能不需要任何治疗而对于老年患者没有任何治疗效果很好但预后很差。
Lisa Garvin:你还为MDS开发过世界分段工具,对吧?
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:正确的。我们在MD安德森公司开发了一些预测模型。我们还与现在被认为是这种疾病的标准预后模型合作,也就是你所说的IPSS,这是一个全球模型有近10000名患者参与。所以,基本上这些预后的工具很重要,因为它们允许我们定义特定子集的患者可能从那些真正多次preleukemic类型的条件,是社区的医生如何看待这种疾病到另一个子集的病人有预后和那些患有急性一样糟糕粒细胞性白血病。
Lisa Garvin:这肯定是一场斗争,因为疾病的不同亚型表现非常不同。这对一个临床医生和研究人员来说一定是一种挣扎吧?乐动体育LDsports中国
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:是的,绝对。而且我认为这就是为什么我们对我们实际报告我们所做的进展变得更加困难,因为我认为我们正在处理什么是我称之为疾病的微量键,所以我们现在采用了一个小的特定子集患者。我认为我们实际上正在取得进展。当你以完全看待它们时,很难看到这一点。这是这种疾病的困难之一。这对患者来说非常重要,因为这些患者的许多不同的子集具有较为不同的结果,可能是可能不同的治疗替代品。因此,这不仅仅是对于研究而且对患者来说是非常重要的,因为它具有对您所知的影响,乐动体育LDsports中国因此,我们认为是临床医生的影响。因此,这是一个特别困难的决定,即异质性的背景。
Lisa Garvin:现在,在我们的癌症月亮镜头之一时,我们在速记中呼唤的骨髓增强综合征或MDS与急性髓性白血病相结合。解释一下。显然,MDS患者的子集对AML进行了进展。
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:正确的。因此,传统上,人们让15年前说,以为MDS是AML的序言。所以,他们多年来一直在一起。在过去十年中,这是显而易见的,这些是两种不同的疾病。但是有一群患者可能取决于你如何从10%到30%的患者从MDS到AML看。还有另一组患者,其实际上具有MDS功能。所以这些是人类患有白血病的人。他们从未有过MDS的诊断,但实际上骨髓教导我们建议,这也是该人也有MD,或者疾病从MDS功能演变。因此,中间两种疾病之间存在巨大的重叠。在大部分患者中,MDS到AML的显着进展。 So, it made sense to put them together in this moon shot program but scientifically, clinically and biologically, more and more we see this as two different diseases with a big overlap.
Lisa Garvin:我们之所以选择登月疾病,是因为它们有望取得重大突破,并将其应用于临床。从表面上看,这听起来像是一组困难的疾病。为什么它被选为登月计划?
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:嗯,我不确定丽莎,这就是这些疾病的选择方式。你可能是对的。我认为一些 - 在一些设置中,这些程序被选中可能是因为临床和研究程序的深度。乐动体育LDsports中国因此,事实证明,白血病部门一直在致力于这些疾病30岁。所以有相当多的专业知识,数据,我认为更深刻地了解问题是什么,所以我认为这就是我们选择的原因。它也恰及,我认为,您知道,MDS和AML,即使这些是全球或全国范围内的疾病相对较小的疾病,它们也代表了MD Anderson本身用于照顾患者的巨额资源。所以,医院基本上,三分之一的床是无知的白血病。所以这是大量MD安德森所做的,而不是说MD安德森的其他课程不好。它们很棒。他们可能更好。 But this is a big chunk of what the work at MD Anderson is, you know, taking care of people with leukemia, AML and MDS. Even if the number of patients is smaller than breast cancer or colon cancer, these represent a huge fraction of what we do in the hospital for instance. So I think it's an important problem for us and I think it's a very important problem in society because these are diseases of aging. And as we get older, the frequency, the incidence of this disease is increasing. And as I mentioned earlier, this is very important. We are starting to see more and more patients with other cancers and other leukemias where we are now very successful. Like for instance, what is a typical example, multiple myeloma. When I was a fellow 15 years ago, survival of outpatient with myeloma was I guess two or three years. Now, these patients can live for a long period of time with the current therapies. But as their life expectancy expands because of their primary disease, unfortunately, the chances that they develop the secondary leukemias, AML, MDS also increases. So, we're starting to see patients with secondary disease that we never saw before just because they are surviving longer the primary disease. So this is an important problem, because now you have older population, high incidence of MDS, high incidence of AML, plus significant success in solid tumors, myeloma, lymphoma, all the leukemias like CLL for instance. We see an increase also apparently of the secondary leukemia. So, at the end of the day, this is an important problem in the hospital and in the nation. So, of course, my goal will be to potentially, hopefully limit the number of patients that requires stem cell transplant. Of course, stem cell transplant is a great tool but it's toxic. And it will be great to learn who really benefits from it, who doesn't really benefit from it. But for sure, it's curative on a specific subset of patients. So we need to figure that out. And I think that transplant is evolving from an approach maybe 10 years ago of very high dose chemotherapy with stem cell rescue to a much more sophisticated way of treating patients with leukemia and actually potentially other tumors. So, people have heard about these CAR cells that are now being investigated in many centers in the United States with great success in ALL and CLL. MD Anderson has a very nice program here for this type of approach as well. So, Dr. Champlin and his group of investigators, Dr. Cooper, Shpall and others are really trying to figure out more innovative biologically adapted approaches to stem cell transplant. But actually, some of them maybe actually pure immune approaches to therapy and maybe we should talk about the immune platform at MD Anderson later. But we're exploiting immunology knowledge in cellular immunology to really make transplant less toxic and also be associated with lesser risk of relapse, because what we're seeing over the last few years is that as the transplant doctors realize that perhaps this high dosage of chemo were too toxic. They adapted the way of doing these therapies with these many transplants, things of that nature. But what we're seeing is that unfortunately, that decrease in mortality and toxicity from the transplant is associated with increase in relapse rates. So the survival, in my opinion at least in MDS, doesn't seem to be improving with transplant, with conventional technologies. So, I think the future would be to combine these total therapies particularly develop newer approaches to transplantation. So, Dr. Champlin has, who's the head of transplant here at MD Anderson, has put together a very nice team of investigators that focus on this and they are looking at many different venues to really produce this type of immunological manipulation of the patient that I think that, you know, today usually what is going to have an effect on the patient.
Lisa Garvin:我觉得,抱歉,我不是有意打断你。但让我们来谈谈免疫疗法,因为作为一种治疗方案,它的受欢迎程度有起有落现在突然间它在治疗AML和MDS等疾病的前沿。因此,我们有一个巨大的免疫治疗平台用于登月。因此,驾驭免疫系统似乎已经成为一种新的研究途径。乐动体育LDsports中国
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:是的。这是非常有趣的,因为发生了什么是这些药物的第一次试验,你说,你知道,我们有像吉姆·艾利森这样的研究人员,发现了很多这些途径在MD安德森有这些免疫检查点。它们首先在实体肿瘤中进行测试,特别是黑素瘤,肾癌,这些都是有免疫学背景的。但来自我们淋巴瘤科的数据显示,这些途径也参与了淋巴瘤,多发性骨髓瘤和骨髓增生异常综合征。所以,我们现在正在领导一些临床试验,我们使用这些PD-1抑制剂,PD-L1抑制剂,组合,等等,在骨髓增生异常综合征的患者和在淋巴瘤科的淋巴瘤,多发性骨髓瘤。这很有趣因为人们认为这些治疗方法是实体肿瘤治疗。这实际上是交叉受精是如何美妙地发生的一个例子,在白血病中,我们从实体肿瘤中获取知识,将这些“新药”应用到白血病的治疗中。我们正在进行一些试验。早知道他们是否会有同样的效果,你知道,他们所示黑色素瘤等等,但这是一个领域,我们兴奋,你是完全正确的,我们至少在白血病,我们不感兴趣的几年,因为他们往往失败。但我们坚信,这给了我们一个机会来研究和探索完全非传统的治疗方法它们可能不会与传统的低甲基化药物化疗形式产生交叉耐药性。 So this gives us a totally new view of the disease. So there's a lot of excitement about this concept in leukemia.
Lisa Garvin:因为我知道AML和MDS最大的问题之一是复发率不好意思,不是复发率,而是他们对治疗产生了抗药性。所以,你的研究的一部分是试图推翻这一点吗乐动体育LDsports中国?
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:这是个很重要的问题,丽莎。所以,是的,我们有研究准备开始研究这个问题,特别是在AML中,给患者这些药物我们称之为微小残留疾病,换句话说,他们看起来他们从白血病治愈了,但我们知道他们会复发。所以我们的想法是你能不能给这种类型的治疗基本上-它不是一种疫苗但也许公众会理解这是一种方法来根除或接种疫苗对抗疾病的最后残余。总的来说,不幸的是,这实际上是AML患者死亡的原因。在MDS方面,我们采取了另一种可能更积极的领导,但它是一个重要的。我们去年公布的数据显示,在患者中,地西他滨或Vidaza,这是两种药物,这是像商标一样的名字阿扎胞替丁或地西他滨,对患者无效。我们发表的是,似乎这些免疫解除控制的途径是存在的[语音]。所以,我们认为实际上我们可以拯救那些失败的病人用这些化合物,也就是低甲基化剂,用这些免疫检查点调节剂。我们现在正在进行一项主要的PD-1抗体试验,这项研究进行了三分之二。在接下来的几周我们将开始一项非常类似的研究用另一个赞助商的PD-L1抗体治疗低甲基化失败MDS。 So you're going to see a lot of the studies. And I think what's going to happen is that they'll probably be put together, PD-1 inhibitors with PD-L1 inhibitors potentially with hypomethylating agents and so forth. So this is an area that is new for me actually. And what is interesting is that the way we treat these patients in the clinic with these drugs may be vary from what we traditionally have seen with conventional. So it's actually a little bit of a learning curve even for leukemia doctors have been doing this for like 15 years.
Lisa Garvin:那么,您对未来一年的AML和MDS登月计划有何看法?听起来你有很多临床试验要做。还会发生什么?
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:我们正在研究,Hanash博士和他的蛋白质组学平台。我们正在对MDS和AML进行详细的蛋白质组学分析。我认为这可能会给我们带来很多新的潜在目标所以它会利用这一点。Champlin博士带来了一个雄心勃勃的计划,我提到过新的移植死亡率,还有很多移植的临床试验。专注于AML的Andreeff博士专注于FLT3这是AML中的一种常见突变。他的合作者正在开发许多新的策略来克服这个问题。再次回到你的第一个问题,Lisa,关于疾病的微观解剖,你知道,这可能不像你告诉我的在CLL中的Ibrutinib,很明显它在基因上起作用。在这里,游戏的名称将是我们是否能识别出适合这种移植的最佳患者并治愈90% ?我们能确定FLT3突变的最佳治疗方法吗?这是一个很容易实现的目标,我们能改善低甲基化失败MDS患者的预后吗? So we're working on this angle. So my life is a little bit complicated right now because it's just trying to hold all these stuff together. And the progress is maybe a little bit not as fast as, you know, if you get one big drug and that behave right away but when it matures it would be the new standard of care.
Lisa Garvin:好吧,听起来你有你的工作为你剪掉。谢谢Manero博士。
Guillermo Garcia-Manero博士:谢谢,丽莎。
Lisa Garvin:如果您对今天在癌症新闻线上听到的任何内容有任何疑问,请致电1-877-MDA-6789或在线mdanderson.org/ask与askMDAnderson联系。感谢收听本期的癌症新闻。敬请收看我们系列的下一期播客。
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